Sarah B. Rogers: Europe’s Online Safety Act threatens US free speech, 12,000 arrests for speech acts in the UK, and the chilling effects of vague regulations | All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

Key takeaways

• The regulatory frameworks in Europe often conflict with the US commitment to free speech.
• The UK’s Online Safety Act imposes content regulations that differ significantly from US laws.
• Vague regulations can lead to a chilling effect on speech, particularly for risk-averse corporations.
• Europe focuses more on technocratic regulation, while the US emphasizes individualism.
• American businesses may face regulatory threats from EU preferences about speech.
• Extraterritoriality involves balancing European and American laws, especially online.
• The Online Safety Act and Digital Services Act enforce existing censorship laws on the internet.
• The UK has arrested more people for speech acts than some authoritarian countries.
• Freedom of speech is essential for a free society, especially for uncomfortable topics.
• Prosecutions for speech criticizing migration policies are increasing in the UK.
• A two-tier policing system in the UK disproportionately affects critics of mass migration.
• The UK Online Safety Act imposes financial penalties on US companies for non-compliance.
• The Digital Services Act acts as a censorship tariff affecting American tech companies.
• Censorship often protects those in power rather than addressing public criticism.
• There is concern about increasing censorship in allied countries.

Guest intro

Sarah B. Rogers serves as Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs. She previously served as a partner at Brewer, Attorneys & Counselors, where she represented the National Rifle Association in a winning Supreme Court appeal alongside the ACLU and successfully defended it against New York State Attorney General efforts to dissolve the organization on First Amendment grounds. Rogers has been sharply critical of EU and UK censorship policies, including the Global Disinformation Index and threats to ban social media platform X.

The conflict between European and American free speech laws

• “The regulatory frameworks in Europe conflict with the US commitment to free speech.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• “Europe especially since the second world war… has taken a much stronger approach on free speech than even most of the west.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The UK’s Online Safety Act imposes content regulations conflicting with US laws.
• “The UK has something called the online safety act… major categories of content are banned or rendered illegal that would not be illegal in the United States.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Vague regulations can lead to a chilling effect on speech.
• “A vague prohibition will chill speech especially when that prohibition is imposed on a large risk-averse corporation.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Europe focuses more on technocratic regulation compared to America’s emphasis on individualism.
• “In Europe, there is more of a focus on technocratic regulation as an arbiter of what’s acceptable than there might be in America.” – Sarah B. Rogers

The impact of the Online Safety Act and Digital Services Act

• The Online Safety Act and Digital Services Act enforce existing censorship laws on the internet.
• “These are portals through which existing censorship laws get applied to the internet.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• In a single year, over 12,000 people in the UK were arrested for speech acts.
• “That was in a single year of slightly over 12,000 Brits arrested for speech acts.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Freedom of speech is essential for a free society.
• “The cornerstone of a free world of any free society has to be freedom of speech.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Prosecutions related to speech criticizing migration policies are becoming more common in the UK.
• “There was a thirty-one-month sentence handed down to a suburban mother named Lucy Connolly in the UK.” – Sarah B. Rogers

The role of censorship and its implications

• Censorship often serves to protect those in power rather than address public criticism.
• “The purpose of censorship is always to protect the people in power.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The trend of increasing censorship in allied countries is concerning.
• “It is disturbing that countries that we see as our closest allies are moving in this direction of more and more censorship.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Mocking public officials is essential for democracy and self-governance.
• “Making fun of public officials is one of the most essential things you can do in a democracy.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Deepfakes challenge the public’s ability to discern truth from falsehood.
• “What’s interesting about a deepfake is that the point of parity is that you can tell that it’s parity.” – Sarah B. Rogers

The influence of regulatory power on corporate behavior

• Regulators having too much power can lead to companies altering their behavior to appease them.
• “That’s the risk of giving any regulator kind of a capricious cudgel over the internet.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The UK Online Safety Act is beginning to impose financial penalties on US companies.
• “I don’t believe there have been any big fines under the UK online safety act yet.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The Digital Services Act functions as a censorship tariff that disproportionately affects American tech companies.
• “I’ve referred to the DSA before as a censorship tariff.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Fines imposed on American tech companies by the EU are perceived as a de facto tax.
• “There’s a suspicion that this is really kind of a de facto tax.” – Sarah B. Rogers

The intersection of technology and free speech

• Existing laws can be applied to AI-related issues without the need for new regulations.
• “Just because you don’t have AI-specific laws doesn’t mean that you can do whatever you want with AI.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Regulatory caution is warranted when approaching new technologies like AI.
• “The impulse to restrain that zeal to regulate tends to be vindicated over time.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Social media is currently more accurate than traditional media in correcting misinformation.
• “I still think social media is by far the best for accuracy.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The community notes algorithm on X promotes consensus among users with differing opinions.
• “The genius of that algorithm is the community note only gets promoted if users who usually disagree agree that that notice is right.” – Sarah B. Rogers

The geopolitical landscape of free speech

• The US and Europe may face a growing divide on free speech issues.
• “I will say that I’ve had productive conversations and hope that I’ll have more.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• There may be a future where European countries demand their own versions of American social networks.
• “Would there be a UK specific version of X?” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The political feasibility of implementing a great firewall in the UK is low.
• “It is not politically feasible because British people want to be free.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The Biden administration pressured social networks to engage in censorship.
• “The Biden administration was pressuring social networks to engage in censorship.” – Sarah B. Rogers

The role of NGOs and financial institutions in free speech

• American NGOs are collaborating with foreign governments to circumvent the First Amendment.
• “This is an entity taking government money to get foreign governments to come after American businesses.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The EU’s Digital Services Act allows NGOs to act as ‘trusted flaggers’ to report content.
• “The EU DSA requires that member states designate NGOs as so-called trusted flaggers.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The government can indirectly restrict freedom of speech by pressuring financial institutions.
• “The government was applying it instead of going directly to the guy saying the thing you don’t like.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The ESG movement is expanding the concept of reputational risk.
• “There’s this ESG movement to expand the concept of reputational risk.” – Sarah B. Rogers

The importance of vigilance in protecting free speech

• We all need to be vigilant about free speech to prevent it from being taken away.
• “If you’re not vigilant about free speech there are people who will take it away.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The government uses intermediaries to suppress speech indirectly.
• “When the government can’t do it directly because it’ll be a violation of the First Amendment they use an intermediary.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• Elon Musk is an outlier among tech leaders for his willingness to stand up for free speech.
• “Elon is an outlier in terms of willing to stand up to the government in terms of protecting free speech.” – Sarah B. Rogers
• The vaccine did not completely prevent transmission, which was initially suppressed information.
• “One thing that was suppressed included the assertion that the vaccine did not completely prevent transmission.” – Sarah B. Rogers